Members of SHRUG representatives met with officers from TfGM and Metro on 19th March 2013, as a follow-up to a previous meeting in September 2012.
Items discussed included
- Northern Hub timescales
- Electrification Work
- Planning for Future Service Patterns from 2016-18 and from 2018 onwards
- Skip-Stopping Services 2016-2018
- Peak Services
- Service Patterns from 2018 onwards
- Franchise renewal
- Maintaining the direct Link to Manchester Victoria
Full notes of the meeting can be found here.
Notes of the meeting between SHRUG & TfGM 19 March 2013
Present: members of Greenfield Rail Action Group, Friends of Mossley Station and SMART, Stephen Clark (TfGM) Roy Chapman (TfGM), James Nutter (Metro)
SC outlined current situation:
- Northern Hub now into Capital spending process
- Ordsall Curve subject to planning application process
expected completion by 2016.
From 2016:
- Victoria will be the principal Trans-Pennine station
- Northwest electrification will be complete
- (hopefully) electrification Manchester Victoria-Stalybridge & Guide Bridge-Stalybridge will be complete.
From 2018:
- Castlefield corridor works complete.
- Stalybridge-Leeds-York/Selby electrification complete.
Planning Future Services & Franchising
Planning of future services will be dependent upon track-access requests made between train operating complanies (TOCS) & Network Rail (Rail Regulator will intervene to resolve disputes). Which TOCs will depend upon the franchising process. DfT & northern PTEs will work together to set the franchise requirements.
- Spring 2013 – announcement of the timetable for the next round of re-franchising which will include Northern/Trans-Pennine.
- Spring 2014 – likely start of the process for Northern/Trans-Pennine.
- 12 months to set out the franchise specification in advance of invitation to tender (ITT)
- an extension of the two franchises is likely to cover the interim in 2014
[A subsequent announcement has been made to the effect that the existing Northern and Trans-Pennine franchises will run until 2016, not 2014.]
Working Assumption
SC reported that there were no ‘firm plans’ as yet for services beyond 2014. SC explained that TfGM were making the following working assumption, working towards the ‘ultimate goal of getting the timetable right for the route from 2018’:
– up to 8 paths per hour with local services = 2tph throughout the day from as early as possible (but unlikely before 2018)
- 1x all stations service
- 2x skip-stop services i.e. 2 pairs
- All stations service could extend to Leeds (or could terminate at Huddersfield). SHRUG’S preference would be Huddersfield to enable passengers at intermediate stations to get on a train not crowded with Leeds etc. passengers. This is likely to be the case with the skip-stops because the skip-stop service will extend to Leeds and beyond (Selby & possibly Hull)
SC pointed out that actual TT is dependent on those specifying the franchise – DfT, Northern PTEs (TfGM) & subject to treasury approval)
The Northern Hub Plan is for 6 TPEs per hour.
- 4 express from Leeds (or beyond) and Huddersfield to Manchester Victoria with 2 continuing to Liverpool and 2 continuing to Manchester Airport via the Ordsall Chord and Manchester Piccadilly.
- 2 skip stop expresses from Leeds and Huddersfield and 2 out of 4 local stations to Manchester Piccadilly.
It was noted the additional Victoria – Newcastle train will run from December, 2014 crowding the already crowded line even further.
We did not get any further trying to identify where these would fit to come closest to a 30 min interval at each station.
Maintaining Link to Victoria
SC said that if it is possible to maintain the connection of a service into Victoria they will do so but it is too early to say whether this will be possible at this point in time.
SC confirmed that there is no practical issue of one of the services from the west via Victoria, planned to terminate at Stalybridge post-2018, continuing to Huddersfield. Such a service would need to wait at Stalybridge to be passed by an express service. Felt the timetable interval at Stalybridge only needs 3 or 4 minutes between the all-stations train and the following express but Network Rail may hold the local for up to 8 minutes at Stalybridge (as they do now at Stalybridge and Huddersfield) if the express is running late. This would also apply if all-stations train was to/from Piccadilly so is not an argument against Victoria. This would need to be tested however at the timetable planning stage. (Stalybridge can be a passing point in both directions).
SC reported that the view of TfGM was that this should be kept as an option.
It was queried whether the dual-directional line at Stalybridge Station provided on Platform 3 was being used at all to avoid current delays for local trains.
There was also discussion about other passing places – Diggle & Marsden.
Skip-Stopping Services 2016-2018
SC re-stated that in the interim period 2016-18 it will not be possible to maintain an all stations service during the core part of the day whist that service is run by diesel-powered rolling stock. Post-2018 with an electric service an all stations service is possible.
SC confirmed that it was assumed that the skip-stop services will go forward to Leeds and originate/terminate at Piccadilly.
SC stated that it was the view of TfGM that the operator (successful franchisee) will need to consider how they will manage the requirement to double-back with a skip-stop service pattern.
SC reported that the Network Rail delivery date of ‘December 2018’ for stage 2 of the works is vague.
Peak Services
We mentioned concern to maintain (if not improve) the current level of peak services in the interim period and beyond. SC confirmed that he could not see a problem with utilising the freight paths for peak services – as happens currently.
Stephen Clark agreed the 43 minute gap in the morning peak hour service into Victoria needs to change.
We asked about the impact of the 5th TPex service (from December 2014) running from Liverpool-Newcastle via Victoria on peak services – SC did not have any information on this.
When asked about peak, evening and weekend services SC confirmed that planning work on the peak services is not expected in the Northern Hub Programmes Board for another 12 months.
Electrification Work
The work is to be carried out in two phases: west of Stalybridge & east of Stalybridge. We expressed the view that work should be carried out in such a way to minimise disruption and the use of bus-substitution by running services up to turn-backs – e.g. Marsden and Diggle.
SC did not have information on the timetable for engineering work. It was queried whether there had been negotiations with Oldham Council about bridge work in preparation for the electrification. (STOP PRESS – Oldham Council have confirmed subsequently that discussions have taken place)
Moving Forwards
SC asked us for involvement giving suggestions and a range of options for
- peak services 2016-2018
- peak services post 2018
- destinations for peak services
- evening services 2016-18
- weekend services 2016-18
We agreed it would be useful to have a further meeting in June 2013 once the announcement had been made on the re-franchising timetable.
